The Collaboration Twins Podcast
Are you a soon-to-be, new or current parent of twins? Look no further! "The Collaboration Twins Podcast" is here to support and empower you on your twin parenting journey. Hosted by twin parents Kelly and Rob, this show covers the unique and often unpredictable experiences of raising twins. From practical advice on managing the daily demands of twin life to heartfelt conversations with other twin parents, "The Collaboration Twins Podcast" is a must-listen for anyone navigating the joys and challenges of raising twins. Tune in and join Kelly and Rob as they celebrate the incredible bond shared by twins and the families that love them.
The Collaboration Twins Podcast
S2 | EP16 | Toddler Tantrums & Twins (Part 1)
Ever wondered how to effectively address challenging behaviours in your twins without losing your sanity? In this episode of the Collaboration Twins Podcast, Kelly and Rob are back from their two-month break, bringing fresh insights and personal experiences straight to your ears. From Rob’s incredible running achievements to Kelly’s journey through family illness and counselling training, we share the highs and lows of our break and the success of our sleep webinar with Emma from Effortless Sleep Solutions. We promise you’ll walk away with practical strategies for managing the unique dynamics of twin behaviour.
Are you curious about how calm guidance can transform your parenting approach? In this mini-series, we dive into the importance of modelling calm and positive behaviour, demonstrating how to redirect negative actions into constructive ones. We underscore the power of staying calm and focused with techniques like promoting cuddling over pushing and using chew toys for biting. Through personal anecdotes, we highlight how these small shifts can create a nurturing and secure environment for your twins, making a real difference in their development and your peace of mind.
Ready to foster better turn-taking and connection among your twins? Our discussion emphasises the significance of patience, consistency, and the concept of "connection over correction." Drawing from real-life examples, we share effective methods for teaching turn-taking, handling meltdowns, and recognizing the underlying communication behind a child's behaviour. By incorporating strategies like the SAD approach, you'll learn how to manage meltdowns with empathy and create a more harmonious household. Join us for this enlightening episode packed with valuable tips and heartfelt stories!
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you're listening to the collaboration twins podcast with me kelly and me rob. I hope you guys enjoy it and welcome back to after our two months sabbatical. Um to episode 16. I had to go and look through our previous episodes find find out where we are. So yeah, we've been busy, haven't we? Yeah, We've had a lot on. Rob's been just running like Forrest Gump-style running, Just went for a run. That hasn't stopped.
Speaker 2:One day I felt like running.
Speaker 1:I just felt like running. Do you want to talk very quickly about your epic achievement that you did earlier?
Speaker 2:Have we done a podcast since?
Speaker 1:No, it's been two months.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, okay. So for any listeners out there, I decided to go and run 100K over a 24-hour period through the night. So I did it in about 17, 18, 19 hours, I don't remember, but I finished at like 7 o'clock in the morning. I did 100 miles, 8k loops, 100 kilometers, 104 kilometers, 8k loops around a park in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 1:It's about 63, 64 miles, isn't it? You ran yeah.
Speaker 2:Raising money for mental health charities and then, stupidly, I decided three weeks later to run another 50K, yeah, and run some races in between.
Speaker 1:So we've not been doing podcasts because Rob's been running. You can probably hear by my nasally sounding voice that I've not been 100%. I've had a bit of family illness at the moment which has kind of thrown a big spanner in the works, so that's been quite tough to deal with. So, yeah, we've just taken a break so we can go running and also also let's let's be honest.
Speaker 2:You had your final year of training to be a counselor the final last. You're into the last year now but you had a big push towards your uh counseling training, which has taken up a lot of essay times for you and also work's been challenging. Yeah. Because it's the end of, and you've got a lot of teacher listeners out there as well. So you know it's like. I mean I don't know it's like. To me it looks like a bit of a doddle. Being a teacher, it's definitely not a doddle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's been very full on. We've had a lot going on, so thank you for sort of staying with us, but we thought you know what would be most appropriate, having gone through today, starting to hang on, and I'm just going to introduce what we're going to do and why I know what you want to say what? You want to talk about Chesterton and things like that, don't you?
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, not that I was about to say we haven't gone on a loss, completely a miss, because we read that sleep one, didn't we?
Speaker 1:yeah, we had the sleep webinar, thank you if you joined us in the sweet sleep webinar, yeah, so just sort of throw that in. It's not like we just deserted. No, we did. Actually that did really well. We had a big influx of members from the uh, the uk twin community. Come and join us on facebook.
Speaker 1:So if you are a listener and you are not part of our facebook community, go and find us on facebook. We are the collaboration twins parenting group. Yeah, um, lovely supportive women. I'm always putting tips in their mental health tips, things like that. And we held a sleep webinar on the basis that so many mums were asking us about sleep, um, and how we did it. So we we teamed up with emma from effortless sleep solutions and we kind of hashed out a few of the main sleep questions, didn't we? And that is available. So if you want to hear that and get some of those golden gems, just reach out to me on instagram or join the face. It's in the facebook community group. It's all there for you and emma's doing a special deal if you want to work with her up until the end of August, I think, just for the twins.
Speaker 1:So it's worth checking out.
Speaker 2:So today's episode.
Speaker 1:Based on what we've gone through this afternoon Challenging behavior with twins. Now, if you're watching on on youtube, I've actually had to write down this because when it comes to the behavior and parenting it, I've got so much knowledge. I will go off on a tangent. So I really want to focus on today just challenging behavior that you see with twins and try and tackle some of those common ones. And I promise I will do one like dealing with challenging behavior before bed, dealing with meltdown stuff like that and different parenting techniques. But that's going to be like a three hour podcast, so I've given myself some pointers today and just so I stay on track with challenging behavior.
Speaker 2:Let's be face it right. Let's be honest. We've got 12% left on the laptop as well, because daddy didn't charge it properly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I will try and give you just the essential things you need to know when it comes to challenging behaviour twins, because challenging behaviour is challenging for a reason, but it's a different level with twins. Like, I deal with challenging behaviour all day at work when I come home, but it's a different level when you've got two feeding off each other yeah, you see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, would you call it twin fuckery, twin fuckery, right? So let's just jump into it, because I'm I'm completely like you know, I've got the twins no, you did an amazing job and I want I've noticed that you're doing.
Speaker 1:I mean, I wrote down here some three things I want you to take away, and the first thing is there is no quick fix with behavior. I'm sorry if you're listening to this podcast thinking Kelly's going to tell me to say and do this one thing and it's all going to work out. What's the golden nuggets. I'm sorry that doesn't work. There are some things, like with developmental behavior, you can crack within a couple of days. Other things, such as like at the moment, our most challenging behavior is they're pushing each other and because it's a game and they're finding it enjoyable, it's really hard to manage. But when it comes to things like developmental behavior or communication behavior, that is a little bit quicker to nip in the bud. But there are no quick fixes. Okay, just consistency and sticking to your boundaries like mean what you. Boundaries Like mean what you say. Boundaries in, boundaries in Mean what you say.
Speaker 2:Call my family boundaries in.
Speaker 1:The other thing is focus on the behavior you do want to see. So there's a lot of research that toddlers in particular don't hear the negatives at the start of a sentence. So if you're saying don't hit your brother or don't do this or no biting, they're not processing the negative at the beginning of the sentence. So if you're saying don't hit your brother or don't do this or no biting, they're not processing the negative at the beginning of the sentence, they're only processing that final word and then you're going to hear that behave. See that behavior. Prime example.
Speaker 1:You know I'm human, I don't get it right all the time. One of the early days we started biting. I lost it once. I was like no biting and she just went biting and carried on because her brain isn't processing the negative at the beginning of that sentence. All she's hearing is that we're biting. So the way around, that is biting. No, putting the negative in at the end. Um, and I put here save your strict. So I'm not saying you can't ever be strict with your children. They need to know the firmness. But if you're being firm and strict every single time, you're not going to have an effect of it. So save your strict for when it really matters, like if they're in danger or when you really have hit your limit. So then it actually has an impact and they take it on you respect my father streets?
Speaker 1:yeah and just remember, parent parenting is fucking hard. It's the hardest job in the world.
Speaker 2:It really is um no, I don't know about that. No one gets it right. I think it's something it could be. It could be on the same level as having a partner.
Speaker 1:That's a bit difficult yeah, no, parenting is hard and there's a quote out there that I love that always come come to, and it says parenting's only hard for good parents. So if you're finding it hard, it's because you're a good parent, because you're trying. So, yeah, they're just some of the key things I wanted to take away.
Speaker 2:Podcast over guys. Well done, Thank you.
Speaker 1:So and I just want to praise you that you're doing something amazing at the moment is. I see that, let's be honest, our most challenging twin after three say their name one, two, three. Ted.
Speaker 1:And it's a boy thing. What I've noticed you're doing, which is just lovely to see, is you're telling him not to do something and telling him what you do want to see. So it might be like don't hit your sister cuddling, and then he'll go and give her a cuddle oh lovely cuddling mate. Well done, buddy, High five and you're really praising the behavior you do want to see, and that is such a powerful technique.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:And you do it really really well. I quite often hear you going oh that's nice, buddy, well done buddy. Good listening and the key thing we're doing there.
Speaker 2:Do you know what that is? It's coaching techniques. Is it coaching?
Speaker 1:but it's also you're praising the behavior, not the child. So I'm not saying, don't ever say good boy, good girl, because I believe they need to hear that. But if you're only telling them they're a good boy and a good girl linked to that behavior, then they're going to be very externally motivated and they're going to be people pleasers. And actually what you want to do is you want to praise the behavior or praise the skill. So like great effort, buddy, good listening. So if I ask them to do something, um, I don't. When they follow it through, I very rarely say, oh, good boy, it'll be like good listening.
Speaker 2:We're praising the skill and the, the instruction, things like that see, and one of the things which I've been working with ted is the nurturing side, so a lot of um, I'm getting him to understand the cuddle but he never really cuddled me. Now he does like, does a big, bracing cuddle, he does it to everyone. Now A little bit of a squeezing cuggle and I think that's sort of I don't know. I felt that that's bonded us better, but also I felt like he's very much now into modelling me and I feel the pressure's on as a dad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pressure's on.
Speaker 2:To make sure he models it. But I think behaviours, I think there's, there's obviously some behaviors like you know we'd probably talk about, but I think also saying don't, don't deny it, don't forget the other behaviors that you said, the modeling behaviors you can do out there. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like run, the running, um, the please, the thank yous, those sort of things, the basics. The basics I mean not running, but like you know what I mean, like being a role model for the future. Like, for example, if you want a child to be active and play in the garden, you need to be the one that's active playing in the garden. You can't expect just to shout at them or tell them to go and do something without going there and to do it, and that's a, that's a belief I'm really starting to pull into it massively all behavior is modeled.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and prime example um, especially now erin's talking, I may have dropped something and said oh fuck's sake. And then the next thing I know, a couple of days later, erin drops her cheddars on the floor with oh fuck's sake, which, apart from being slightly funny, was like oh god oh she, she is really listening and, again, that's modeled behavior from me.
Speaker 1:So so much the behavior is modeled. The way that we interact, the way we say please and thank you, how we are with each other. That's where your children and your toddlers and the twins are getting most of their blueprint.
Speaker 2:They're watching you more closely than you think and earlier on than you think um, and I think we've got we, I know we have got a very calming house, despite the twins being the twins. Yeah, we, we don't, we don't shout and argue or you know, I mean that we don't conflict ourselves in that way. Uh, so I feel like I don't know, that, I don't know. The one of the parts I always, I'm always proud of is the twins aren't um, in a, in an anxious state. Yeah, you know, I mean, they don't get that feed off, that vibe in the house. Yeah, the only thing you can see is when they start to vibe off each other. Oh god, that is. Notice it today when it push push.
Speaker 1:So let's just start with that one here. So at the moment we the behavior that we're finding really challenging is they're playing a game called push, and the reason why it's so challenging is because it's a game and they're enjoying it and it's funny for them. So that's one really behavior to crack and actually reason why pushing is not good, because if you push and they fall and they hurt themselves, um, and it's dangerous. And also I don't want them to go up to other children and start playing the push game, push, um. And the reason that's why it's so hard to crack is because it's not communication, it's not developmental, it's a game for them and let's be honest, when we were kids you wanted to carry on playing the game that you found fun.
Speaker 2:Especially when they do that, go around behind each other, go around the kitchen table, and one grabs onto the other one and pushes from behind.
Speaker 1:But then the one that's on the floor that's been pushed is laughing yeah, so they're not going to get upset. And then they're not going to realize like any empathy, because it's not, they're not hurting each other, it's a game, um. So the way we're sort of tackling that is and this is the key to any behavior say the behavior you do want to see. The more you focus on no pushing, no pushing, all they're hearing is push, push, push. So it's. It's. For me it's like, oh, cuddling, cuddle each other or chase each other and I do put in there pushing, no, because they still need to know that boundary.
Speaker 1:But if you find yourself getting into a loop of going no pushing, stop pushing, stop pushing each other, just stop and focus on what you do want to see. So what do I want to see? I want to see you hugging each other or hugging, and then redirect that energy into something else. So if they're obviously in a playful mood and they're enjoying some kind of game like that, um, get them to do a behavior you want to see, like cuddling, and then redirect. You're obviously both in an active mood. Shall we get out the building blocks and build a big tower and push the tower down. So it's redirecting that pushing into a behavior you do want to see and it is constructive. So I quite often go to building towers, knocking towers down, because then that is still sort of fulfilling that sensory need if I want to push. But it's doing a push in a safe way, in a playful way, in a constructive way and not with each other.
Speaker 1:Here's a chair, ted, don't push that around well, that's the other thing they like, isn't it like? Especially with boys, if you've got cars or diggers, go push that around. Yeah, it's redirecting it. And so the big one that we're going to talk about, and this quite often starts off as developmental, and that is biting. I've seen this on the twin group so many times. We went for it and we were really lucky that we kind of nipped the biting in the bud in about three days. Every now and again it rears its head, doesn't it? But they know about biting.
Speaker 2:Most of it comes down to like Ted tends to be more of a biter when he comes down to being very excited. Yeah, Like it takes time for him to get to that point. Aaron has done the odd occasion. It takes time for him to get to that point. Aaron has done the odd occasion.
Speaker 1:Or if they're play fighting with each other. I think that tends to be a bit more. I don't see it so much. I'm talking about when they sort of hit 16, 17 months and they started biting each other.
Speaker 1:And that is a very developmental thing, they don't at that age understand that it's hurting another person. It is almost like it is developmental. So the way we tackled that I did a reel on it is again, it was biting, no, um, so that they were focusing on the no part and it was redirecting them. So, like biting, I gave them chew toys to bite, wasn't it's like biting, no. And the big thing with behavior which is so freaking hard to do is you've got to stay calm and the more that you have a big reaction, like Erin today, when you were just, you know, doing that big reaction of no, what's she doing?
Speaker 1:nothing, she was just laughing in your face because and that that fuels you on even more as a parent like you're doing this big reaction of no, they're finding that freaking hilarious, so they're laughing at. So then you, as the parent, are getting more and more wound up.
Speaker 2:Ted was different today, wasn't it? When he was like going up, going down to his level.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wasn't it.
Speaker 1:But that was different. You got on his level, yeah, and quite often being slower and calmer. I used to use this trick all the time at school, like if a kid was being really naughty. Sometimes you just get down their level and you just talk really calmly, really controlled, really quietly, and that has more of an impact than a big, because they're feeding off that and you've got one or two things going on, or either getting that big reaction they're thinking, haha, this is great, I'm getting the attention. It's either building that internal shame and that can sometimes come out for kids as I'm going to laugh. It's nervous laughter.
Speaker 1:So, and as I said earlier on, save your stricts. There are times when you need to have that firmness and you need to raise your voice and have that strictness, but if you're doing that all the time, it's going to have no effect. So if you pick when to use it, like, for example, running near a road, that undisputable is a firm, hard, big reaction. No. But if you're doing that over the tiniest things, that's not going to have an impact on your needs the most, yeah. So it's trying to be really, really calm, almost nonchalant about. It used to be like, oh, biting, no, and then redirecting them to a biting toy that they could have a chew toy. And that's really hard because I mean it's taken me years of teaching and training to get that right, because I still, inside, want to just get really angry that they're biting each other. But you, you really do have to. Don't give them the reaction, because the minute you start making it a big thing they're going to continue. So it was a very biting, though. Redirect something they could bite, you can bite this.
Speaker 1:I saw a really good reel about one woman in America who used to call it pretend. She used to go pretend before they started to bite and I quite liked that. When they're in that phase, you've just got to sit there and watch them, because as soon as you see it coming, going for that bite, it's intervening with the biting, no, redirect. And I promise you it took two or three days of being consistent with that approach and we stopped the biting and I didn't just do that with erin, I did it with erin and I did it with ted. Yeah, and they are two very different children, very different styles of behavior. Um, and even now when they start it, we go, ah, biting, no.
Speaker 1:And they kind of like remember if that makes sense, um, but yeah, if you've got biters out there, you're not a bad parent. They all, they all do it when they're biting to hurt the other person, which we don't really get, um, we get that very, very rarely. That's when you want to teach that empathy. So if they've bitten their twin, that's we do the biting. No, and you get on their level and you I do the. That's made so-and-so sad. Sorry, if you're watching YouTube, I'm Makaton Siling Sad. That makes them sad You've hurt them. That makes them sad You've hurt that person. And then it's the restorativeness. It's like we cuddle, we cuddle, we don't bite, and again, it's the behavior you do want to see Again it's the behavior you do want to see what others do you want to cover what I've got on here?
Speaker 1:Oh, this one is a big one that I see a lot on the twin groups and is really misunderstood, and it's this idea of sharing, sharing. My twins won't share. And I just want to come in and say, actually, developmentally, children don't learn to share to their four. What you want to be doing with your twins, especially if they're toddlers and at the young age, is you want to be teaching the step before sharing, which is turn taking. Turn taking is something they can learn and is a skill sharing they're not going to really get until they're about four. And also, the big thing with sharing that I always find quite odd is that someone one of the twins, might be playing with something nicely and then the other twin comes along and we just want to take it away from them and say share Now. You wouldn't do that in the adult world. If, like you were, you know playing something nicely, I wouldn't come on and be like, oh, share, you've got to give me that now. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:I mean, you do it quite a lot.
Speaker 1:Well, it's different because we're partners. But you wouldn't go up to somebody in the street, would you, and be like oh, I like your bike, share I like your Ferrari, I like your. Ferrari share take. So I've always found this notion of stopping the twins playing with something that's theirs when they're playing with it nicely.
Speaker 2:And is it because the assumption is that because they're twins, they've got to?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and actually, as I say, sharing is something about. This belongs to me, it's mine, and we're going to share the play, but if they're playing nicely with it, they're not being disruptive. Why are we stopping our twins and saying, no, the other one's got a play of it now, let them have their time. What you can do is redirect the other twin to play with something else, or sometimes it's easier just to get two of the same thing. So instead, what I want you to think about is, rather than sharing is the step before sharing, which is turn-taking, and that is something they really can learn and is a skill. And again, you did this beautifully, and I think there's a reel up on Instagram where you've got the twins sat down and you've got the puzzle, and you've got all the puzzle pieces and you're doing Erin's turn, ted's turn, daddy's turn.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1:I that I didn't know that. I was like that's actually saying that there would be development. Oh, brilliant. Yeah, it's a brilliant use of it. You're very intrinsically good.
Speaker 1:Wow, praise yourself, you're an amazing dad thanks and that is the best way to teach turn taking is you model it, so you get on the floor with them and you do the mummy's turn. Our example mummy's turn, ted's turn, erin's turn, mummy's turn. And you know you will have some battles over it, but you, you stay firm, you go. No, no, it's my turn even down to them.
Speaker 2:Even down to them trying to take more out. Yeah, they were learning. They take one, yeah, out of each time and because it's modeled, they're trying to grab them and you're like, no, put them back in.
Speaker 1:So what I do with that is it's I include myself. So it's Mummy, ted and Erin. They have a few where they try and battle and have little meltdowns of each other. We're like, no, you stick to it, you stay nice and calm and after a couple of turn takings out the picture and it's just ted's turn, erin turn, ted's turn, erin's turn, and you keep modeling it and eventually you can step back and you will see that they start to take turns. They're not perfect. You don't get it right every time. Sometimes you've got to go back and intervene because, as we said remember, there is no quick fixes to this. You model it consistency, patience, getting on the floor and, on their level, being calm and doing it, and you will naturally start to see it. So when we say my twins won't share, no, they probably won't get that for quite a while, but what you can teach them is turn taking, and that's a step before sharing and that is a skill that they can.
Speaker 1:They can't master and you can model and help them with and it's lovely when you I sit back now and I see them just automatically turn taking over that worm game or with the puzzle, because we've spent a lot of time on it, but little sim ones as well.
Speaker 2:You probably don't know. The list is the bowls.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which is like I said that one now. Yeah, yeah, so we. But they've stopped drinking milk now. They just decided to stop it. In the mornings They'd come down and we'd get the milk, but rather than giving one of them if one of them was in the other room and the other one was in the kitchen, rather than giving the one there their milk, we'd always start it where we'd go. Go and give this to your brother or your sister, and they'd go off and do that, and then they'd come back and get their one, and it was like I give and then I get my reward yeah and that worked really, really well, because I've noticed that they do that quite regularly as a normal pattern that they've sort of.
Speaker 1:Again, that's another thing that you've instilled. I never did it, so it is.
Speaker 2:I should be quite coarse in this, shouldn't I?
Speaker 1:You should. About parenting, yeah.
Speaker 2:Parenting for dads, yeah, Twin dads.
Speaker 1:So there is a little bit of some of the main ones. I'm very well. I'm trying to make this short and sweet today.
Speaker 2:You've got 6% left.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to make this short and sweet today Got 6% left Because we've got 6% left, okay. So the last one that I just want to very quickly touch upon is what you do when twins have the meltdown, when one twin wants something that the other twin's got, and I think that's quite a common one. So I'm going to give you a very quick story. So I always say connection over correction, and our favorite saying at school is all behavior is communication. Now I really embody that now as a mom, as a teacher, as someone that's going to be going to be a child therapist. I really understand what it means now and I can see it working. So this idea of connection before correction is being curious about the behavior, because I guarantee, all behavior is communication. It could be something sensory, it could be they want something, it could just be they're frustrated, they can't regulate. So I'll give you one example.
Speaker 1:We were mark making and coloring in the conservatory the other day. Ted then just chucks all of the crayons on the floor. So I go on his level and I help them pick them all up. We say no, we do finished, we don't chuck things on the floor, we do. Finished helping to pick them all up. And he then goes over to Erin, takes Erin's crayons, chucks all them on the floor inside I'm boiling because I've just done the calm parenting bit and said we don't say finish. We, you know, we say finish, we don't do that.
Speaker 1:So I picked them up and I showed them that we give them back to Erin. And I just got curious. I said, like what's going on, buddy, what's the matter? And he just said, uh, playing garden. And it occurred to me that I'd said to them once you finish colouring, we're going to go and play in the garden. So so Ted's trying to communicate. I finished colouring, mum. So I've chucked him on the floor because I'm done. Erin, we've finished colouring, now we're going to go and play in the garden. He's two years old, he doesn't have that skill. He can't tell me that.
Speaker 2:And I'll be honest with you, ted's like you're starting to see that, and that's it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's a special one and he's our Ted. So I mean it could have gone two ways there If I had got really angry at him and then started shouting and gone. No, I've told you, we don't throw the crowns. Ted would have had a meltdown. It would have kind of put a rupture in our relationship. I wouldn't have understood what he was trying to do and actually have understood what he's trying to do and actually when he gets the core of that, I went for that connection over correction and tried to understand his behavior.
Speaker 1:He was basically trying to say I'm done with this, we're going to go, we're going to go and play in the garden. So I was like, oh, I'll give him a colour. I was like you, you have finished, you want to play in the garden. And his face lit up. He's like yes, yes, you've understood me, mum. So I said, well, at the moment, erin's colouring, so when she's finished, erin, here and upon, there's a chance to go in the garden.
Speaker 1:I was like Erin finished. I was like, okay, so all put the crowns away. So they helped me put the crowns away because, again, I've been modelling it from a very young age about tidying and doing it with them. So we put them all away and we went out in the garden and I just had this really proud mum moment of like. This is what, what we mean when we say connection over correction. And this is what we mean when we say connection over correction. And this is what I mean when we say all behaviors communication If you get curious over what's going on for them and sometimes it's just something in their brain, but equally, at the same time.
Speaker 2:This is a fundamental thing that I work with a lot of clients on as well Like curiosity over everything is a fundamental part of a growth mindset. Over everything is a fundamental part of a growth mindset. Like curious, being curious, even being curious as a parent. Why am I triggered by this? It's the kids not triggering the kids not triggering you.
Speaker 2:You're triggered by the kid yeah so if you're getting angry, annoyed and that by means means. I'm not perfect in any of this part of it, but like if you're getting annoyed by the child's actions, be curious why you're getting annoyed by it.
Speaker 1:Quite often it's coming down to control. You want to control the kids?
Speaker 2:yeah but also I. But at the same time I think sometimes when you look at it, it's like um parenting, or parenting some of the stuff that my dad used to do with me. I try and make sure it doesn't come out of me. Yeah, because you model it from your previous parents. My parent told me I need to be like this as a child and you're trying to make the expectations of the child. But when you're curious about it you realise that was sometimes the shittiest way of parenting. You know what I mean. No discredit to my dad, but, like you know what I mean, some of the stuff that he might have done I wouldn't want to do and it's again.
Speaker 1:It comes down to either putting as you say it's, you're putting your expectations on how the twins should be and they're trying to control them.
Speaker 2:But the curiosity is. Curious is so you're writing that and I haven't really thought about, like you know, be curious about why the child is acting the way they do it. Be curious about why you're reacting the way that you are with your child and you see it so much. And if you can be curious about, oh, that's the reason why they're doing this, oh, that's the reason why I feel this way, that's the reason why I do. And then curious about, oh, how could I, how could we change the outcome differently for next time?
Speaker 1:and quite often it's also that you're dysregulated. Your nervous system is dysregulated, so therefore, any slightest inconvenience that the twins do, they're just being themselves.
Speaker 2:And then that's when you start to breathe and sort of think about it like deep breaths. There's an interesting one which I always listen to. I think it was in Ant Middleton's book the Fear Bubble, and one of the things he always talked about was taking the knee. In military terms. Basically said before we, if there's a firefight, it wouldn't just be about blast and shooting everyone out and going into this frantic mode and chaos. He said if we ever got attacked, we'd always the. The SAS used to always say the view of take the knee. So you take the knee to the floor, you breathe for 20 seconds, you assess the situation and you go forward. And if you think about that, even just from a parenting side to it kids having a meltdown take the knee. Think about what your situation, why you're feeling that way, why they're doing it in a particular way. Work out a different approach to it rather than going into full attack mode well, I can help you that because I've got an approach to it.
Speaker 1:So quite often when children are having meltdowns, they are dysregulated. They've got four minutes.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm going to wrap this up. So let's talk about meltdowns. What's going on? They have a common situation Twin one's playing with something. Twin two wants to play with it. They're trying to snatch it. You've explained no it. You've explained no, they're having a meltdown because they want to play it. So, um, what I want you to do here is I want you to think of the acronym sad. Okay, so give you a bit of a, a framework of what to go through now. This is taken a little bit from um, a lady called courageous cubs. I like her approach to it. It's also taken from my absolute idol at the moment, kate silverton um, and her approach to it, and and also I've kind of mashed them together to get the best of both worlds. So, twin one, twin two is having a meltdown because they want to play with something.
Speaker 1:So I always think of S as say what you see, say the emotion, so say at this point they're upset. So be like, oh, you're really upset because you want to play with that toy. A you're thinking of like you're attuning and acknowledging, but you attune to match their feeling. So if they're feeling angry, you wouldn't go. Oh, I can see you're feeling really angry, it'd be. Oh, I can see you're feeling really angry. If they're upset, be like. I can see you're feeling really upset. You really wanted to play with that toy. A is your other A, but you add your boundary. But Erin's playing with that at the moment and we don't go and just take it. D is your distract and divert. Shall we go over here and read a book whilst we wait, or shall we sing a song up to 10 whilst we're waiting? Distract them and divert them away. Now you might get stuck in those phases for a little bit, but keep to it. Keep with your sad and I promise you it will help, because it's all about controlling your nervous system, calming yourself and co-regulating and calming those.
Speaker 1:So when your twin's having a meltdown from the age of about, I'm terrible too. Is it started? What? 17, 16, 17 months? The way that the brain develops, so. So if you start with the brainstem right at the bottom, if you're watching me on YouTube, I'm pointing to it and that is just basically like your survival. It's like cry, I'm hungry, I'm cold, I want to cuddle.
Speaker 1:And then, as they start to develop, we start to hit like 16, 17, 18 months, going into the twos, the middle part of the brain starts to come online, develop, and that's all the limbic system and that's the emotional center. But what they don't have yet is your prefrontal cortex, which is like your thinking bit. So they are just stuck in this wild emotion and don't know how to calm themselves down or how to think. So when they're having a meltdown they're dysregulated. They're in that limbic part of the brain. Kate Silverton calls this the baboon. It's just gone wild. They need you to help them calm and co-regulate with them.
Speaker 1:Stop that meltdown.
Speaker 1:So if you think of that an acronym SAD so say what you see, say the emotion, acknowledge and attune to what's going on for them so they feel valued and heard. But also add your boundary. It's important that you add a limit, add a boundary because they can't just have a meltdown because they want something and then you're d, you're distract, you're divert, put them just somewhere else. Um, that's a really good framework and sometimes the distract and divert takes a little bit longer. Sometimes you have to go back and repeat that loop again. But if you go with that, whilst cuddling them, while soothing them, it does help calm the meltdowns. It makes them feel valued and heard. You're putting the limit in, because the other thing is, if they're fixated on playing with that toy and all they can see is their twin playing with it, sometimes you've got to distract them, divert them away, because they're going to be stuck on that loop of I want the toy, I want the toy. So if you distract them, divert them away, it sort of out of mind helps calm them.
Speaker 2:And I'd like to put a point across just to, if anyone is now there, the twins right now are very much in that stage. Oh my god, erin is very much headstrong that she wants to take controllable situations and she doesn't like it. She gets into a fluster and she goes into full meltdown, shaky, demon, demon hysterics, like ted is, I would say, more consistently in that part, and he has these little sulks and goes off a bit and he likes he wants this and I want that and that's it, and he goes into those modes. So you're like you're doing amazing, kel, just, uh, because we're having to approach the situation in different things, you could have different types of behavior kicking off over the same result, like not wanting a particular food, they want a particular food and we're saying no, you, you've got two different twins, two different humans reacting to differently and at the time you're having to regulate both at the same time. I'm conscious we've got. Okay, what?
Speaker 1:I do in that situation is I get on their level if they're both on a biscuit and they're crying no.
Speaker 1:I get on their level. I give them a little cuddle and I said I've said no. If they carry on, I'm like no, I've said no. And actually there is a lot of evidence to say that. If they're just in a bit of a sulk and a whine, leave them, because children need to learn how to deal with feeling uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:If they're in full, full-blown meltdown, use that sad that I just explained. That's when they need the co-regulation. That's when they need the connection over correction. If they're just having a bit of a whinge and assault, do you know what? No, and let them be uncomfortable. Let them learn how to regulate themselves and be uncomfortable with being told no, because they are going to get told no in life. If we constantly modicum them over everything, we constantly do the sad technique, they're never going to build any resilience. So this is what I mean. I could go on about this stuff for hours. That's what I mean that that example I gave you there was like a full-on meltdown.
Speaker 1:If they're having a bit of a whinge, you said no, give them a little cuddle, I've said no, it's end of. And if they carry on, let them be no, let them feel uncomfortable with it. They'll soon get over it. And if they're not, distract and divert, shall we get a? Get on the floor and play a game? Shall we go and do this, can you? What was I doing to ted earlier when he got in that boisterous mood? Ted, go and find me all the blue balls in the tent. Go, let's count how many have we got. And that's why parenting is so bloody hard, because you have got to be on the ball. You've got to be calm yourself as well as not just calming your storm, calming the twins. You've got to constantly be thinking calm, don't show big emotions. What games can I play? How can I divert them? How can we fight fire? So yeah, parenting is bloody hard and that's why we're double exhausted as twin mums, but we're doing an amazing job should we?
Speaker 1:uh, if the listeners out there like this one, just message us through and we'll do a longer one yeah, I was going to say if you reach out to us either on the collaboration twins parenting group or facebook or dm me on instagram and I can give you another podcast how we're settling challenging behavior before bedtime, because that's ramping up now and I could do different parenting styles. If you've got a, you know, a specific behavior, give me a shout. I'll see if I can put my spin on that. But if you're interested you're thinking where do I go? A couple of books I can recommend. I mentioned her.
Speaker 1:I love Kate Silverton. Kate Silverton, there's no Such Thing as Naughty. That's a really good book. I think it's Philippa Perry. I've got it on the side. It's called the Book you Wish your Parents had Read and You'll Be Glad they Did. That's a really good book. And, uh, dr mark bracket, permission to fill, and at the moment I'm haven't read any of these books. I've got them ready to go, but I'm loving the content by. Is it gabe or mate? Yeah, never sure how to pronounce it. I've seen him on podcasts, watch loads of his reels. He's like the parenting god out there at the moment, and dr shafali, who talks a lot about conscious parenting. So if you want to know where to go and find out some more of this stuff. We were interested in it. Go check out some of those books. Go check out all of those people are on Instagram or Facebook or something, or on Tik TOK with their reels. Go and give them a listen, because they are they're great mentors.
Speaker 2:Should we leave it there for today. We'll leave it there because we've got 1%. Yeah, so thanks for listening, guys, and we will next month. We'll do next month thanks for listening guys bye, bye, ciao.
